Discussion:
Strange PEER error with Dani's 506 1.81 generic question
(too old to reply)
Mike Luther
2007-09-21 12:04:45 UTC
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With a lot of thanks and praise for Dani's work, I've used the DaniS506.ADD
tool for a long time now with no troubles. Haven't changed the version
actually in use since the 11-17-2005 release until I've been generically
preparing a number of system upgrade 'standardization' box changes on SATA
drive boxes.

Everything seemed just fine on work station boxes of all types and lap top
units with this change until I changed to this latest release on a PEER server
which is an Adaptec SCSI system and only uses the IDE interface for one CD-ROM
unit tied to that buss.

These systems are all MCP2 XRC05 latest everything, all kinds of CPU and
memory, video, audio ... whatever, totally stable here. But on this SCSI box
with the only IDE device in use being the CD-ROM, suddenly on start of network
during the boot run I get a strange 'failure to access shares' report!

Curiously, the work station boxes associated with this PEER 'server' seem to
have no trouble in accessing any of the 'shared' drives on this box. And the
CD-ROM was never one of the 'shared' drives anyway. There seems to be no
performance issue on file sharing here any different from before for any
'shared' drive despite the error shown during the boot run.

Any thoughts on this one out here?
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
William L. Hartzell
2007-09-21 15:23:05 UTC
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Post by Mike Luther
With a lot of thanks and praise for Dani's work, I've used the
DaniS506.ADD tool for a long time now with no troubles. Haven't changed
the version actually in use since the 11-17-2005 release until I've been
generically preparing a number of system upgrade 'standardization' box
changes on SATA drive boxes.
Everything seemed just fine on work station boxes of all types and lap
top units with this change until I changed to this latest release on a
PEER server which is an Adaptec SCSI system and only uses the IDE
interface for one CD-ROM unit tied to that buss.
These systems are all MCP2 XRC05 latest everything, all kinds of CPU and
memory, video, audio ... whatever, totally stable here. But on this
SCSI box with the only IDE device in use being the CD-ROM, suddenly on
start of network during the boot run I get a strange 'failure to access
shares' report!
Curiously, the work station boxes associated with this PEER 'server'
seem to have no trouble in accessing any of the 'shared' drives on this
box. And the CD-ROM was never one of the 'shared' drives anyway. There
seems to be no performance issue on file sharing here any different from
before for any 'shared' drive despite the error shown during the boot run.
Any thoughts on this one out here?
I started getting that report about two months ago on my P3 build
machine upon its boot. It turn out that some how the firewall got
enabled (smb over tcp)! After fixing that I still get the report, even
though nothing is broken. I only can think that there is a timing issue
in something that works itself out before I can check. I don't even
know which machine is causing the report! The report dialog goes away
on its own. Sorry that I can not make a suggestion as to what you need
to do.
--
Bill
Thanks a Million!
Mike Luther
2007-09-21 15:55:07 UTC
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Thanks Bill!
Post by William L. Hartzell
I started getting that report about two months ago on my P3 build
machine upon its boot. It turn out that some how the firewall got
enabled (smb over tcp)! After fixing that I still get the report, even
though nothing is broken. I only can think that there is a timing issue
in something that works itself out before I can check. I don't even
know which machine is causing the report! The report dialog goes away
on its own. Sorry that I can not make a suggestion as to what you need
to do.
Interestingly, this box IS firewall enabled. Twice as fact, the machine itself
has the Injoy firewall enabled as a software tool. As well, it is behind a
ZyXel router which has the their internal hardware firewall enabled as well.

I don't as of now know what you mean by (smb over tcp) in the above. I'll dig
into that to see what I can learn and as well, see what I can learn about
whether that is enabled somehow in the Injoy software firewall on this box. I
can 'disable' the Injoy firewall on this box. Have to do that to make MPTN
changes on it, for example, then 're-enable' the Injoy firewall after that. I
guess the first thing to do here is to try the 'disable', see if the report
goes away. Then if so, 're-enable' the Injoy firewall and see if it stays
away. See what I can learn here.

Thanks for your thoughts Bill .. and any others welcome too.
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
William L. Hartzell
2007-09-21 17:34:34 UTC
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Post by Mike Luther
Thanks Bill!
Post by William L. Hartzell
I started getting that report about two months ago on my P3 build
machine upon its boot. It turn out that some how the firewall got
enabled (smb over tcp)! After fixing that I still get the report,
even though nothing is broken. I only can think that there is a
timing issue in something that works itself out before I can check. I
don't even know which machine is causing the report! The report
dialog goes away on its own. Sorry that I can not make a suggestion
as to what you need to do.
Interestingly, this box IS firewall enabled. Twice as fact, the machine
itself has the Injoy firewall enabled as a software tool. As well, it
is behind a ZyXel router which has the their internal hardware firewall
enabled as well.
I don't as of now know what you mean by (smb over tcp) in the above.
I'll dig into that to see what I can learn and as well, see what I can
learn about whether that is enabled somehow in the Injoy software
firewall on this box. I can 'disable' the Injoy firewall on this box.
Have to do that to make MPTN changes on it, for example, then
're-enable' the Injoy firewall after that. I guess the first thing to
do here is to try the 'disable', see if the report goes away. Then if
so, 're-enable' the Injoy firewall and see if it stays away. See what I
can learn here.
Thanks for your thoughts Bill .. and any others welcome too.
There is one other possibility and that is the local shared resources
is/are not starting. I went onto that box just to find out and I
discovered that I had disabled starting the local share when I switched
over to using TCPbeui as it was the boot partition (I deleted the share
and not seen the dialog in three boots today). SMB over TCP is TCPbeui,
as in Netbios over TCP/IP. Firewalls only affects TCP/IP. If you are
using NETbeui, aka Netbios, then the firewall is not part of the problem.
--
Bill
Thanks a Million!
Mike Luther
2007-09-22 18:17:30 UTC
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Well Bill ..
Post by William L. Hartzell
There is one other possibility and that is the local shared resources
is/are not starting. I went onto that box just to find out and I
discovered that I had disabled starting the local share when I switched
over to using TCPbeui as it was the boot partition (I deleted the share
and not seen the dialog in three boots today). SMB over TCP is TCPbeui,
as in Netbios over TCP/IP. Firewalls only affects TCP/IP. If you are
using NETbeui, aka Netbios, then the firewall is not part of the problem.
Turns out this issue with the new 1.8.1 version is more pervasive than I
thought! I suddenly discovered that on ANY box of any kind on which it is
installed, if there is no actual hard drive on the IDE cable, then the problem
seems to be that no CD-ROM there is actually found during the boot up run.

Now on my R40 laptop, the hard disk and boot run completes. On it I don't know
at this point if the CD-RW is found or not. As well, on an ASUS box with an
AMD processor and IDE drive in a mobile drive tray, the IDE main drive for the
box is found. However both the CD-ROM and a DVD in it are missing after the
boot run!

The main box with the SCSI system an only the CD-ROM as the single IDE device
on that cable has no CD-ROM after boot up .. leading to the share missing error
during the requester startup. On another SCSI system with only a CD-ROM as the
only device on that IDE interface on its Intel 915GAVL motherboard doesn't get
found at all either.

At any rate, for the moment I'm back on Dani's 1.7.10 release of February of
2007 which is where all this was prior to the attempted latest release upgrade.
Which works fine for all here for the moment.

I'd welcome other thoughts here from you or whomever. I really don't want to
formally go towards Dani's realm until I can do so with only the right data and
so on. Her time is far too valuable as to the contribution she has made to us
all here with OS/2 to waste on information that really doesn't contribute to
whatever is missing. I'd like to find someone else who sees this as well
before focusing on what to present.

Thanks!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Steve Wendt
2007-09-22 22:07:13 UTC
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Post by Mike Luther
Turns out this issue with the new 1.8.1 version is more pervasive than I
thought! I suddenly discovered that on ANY box of any kind on which it
is installed, if there is no actual hard drive on the IDE cable, then
the problem seems to be that no CD-ROM there is actually found during
the boot up run.
I don't have that problem with my SATA DVD drive.

[C:\]copy ibms506$ con
R1.8.1
Daniela's Bus Master IDE Driver for OS/2 Version 1.8.1
Controller:0 Port:0170 IRQ:0F Status:OK BusMaster Scatter/Gather
Intel ICH6 SATA host (8086:2651 rev:03) on PCI 0:31.2#1
Unit:0 Status:OK ATAPI BusMaster UltraDMA2/PIO4
Model:PLEXTOR DVDR PX-712A 1.04
Mike Luther
2007-09-23 15:34:21 UTC
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Thanks Steve
Post by Steve Wendt
I don't have that problem with my SATA DVD drive.
[C:\]copy ibms506$ con
R1.8.1
Daniela's Bus Master IDE Driver for OS/2 Version 1.8.1
Controller:0 Port:0170 IRQ:0F Status:OK BusMaster Scatter/Gather
Intel ICH6 SATA host (8086:2651 rev:03) on PCI 0:31.2#1
Unit:0 Status:OK ATAPI BusMaster UltraDMA2/PIO4
Model:PLEXTOR DVDR PX-712A 1.04
I haven't gotten to a place to test this on a SATA drive box yet. But on my
R40 although the system comes up, it doesn't show the CD drive in it at all
either! Her version 1.7.10 is what was working just fine here too before I
looked at the 1.8.1 issue on the R40 as well.


Mike Luther
Nobody
2007-09-23 20:09:50 UTC
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Post by Mike Luther
Thanks Steve
snip
Post by Mike Luther
I haven't gotten to a place to test this on a SATA drive box yet. But
on my R40 although the system comes up, it doesn't show the CD drive in
it at all either! Her version 1.7.10 is what was working just fine here
too before I looked at the 1.8.1 issue on the R40 as well.
Mike Luther
You do recall that Dani's latest DANIS506.ADD (File Ver. 1.8.1) requires
the use of the lastest version of her DANIATAP.FLT (aka DANIATAPI.FLT,
DANATAPI.FLT) (File Ver. 0.4)to access an ATAPI device. Her lastest
DANIS506.ADD does *not* work with IBMIDECD.FLT, or IBMATAPI.FLT.

Without using her most recent files together, OS2CDROM.DMD can not find
or operate a device, even thought it will be loaded along with CDFS.IFS.

Your problem sounds like what happned to me, when I temporarily used
IBM1S506.ADD, but couldn't access the CD-ROM Drive. Oops.
Mike Luther
2007-09-24 00:51:23 UTC
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Aha! Insight..
Post by Nobody
You do recall that Dani's latest DANIS506.ADD (File Ver. 1.8.1) requires
the use of the lastest version of her DANIATAP.FLT (aka DANIATAPI.FLT,
DANATAPI.FLT) (File Ver. 0.4)to access an ATAPI device. Her lastest
DANIS506.ADD does *not* work with IBMIDECD.FLT, or IBMATAPI.FLT.
Without using her most recent files together, OS2CDROM.DMD can not find
or operate a device, even thought it will be loaded along with CDFS.IFS.
Your problem sounds like what happned to me, when I temporarily used
IBM1S506.ADD, but couldn't access the CD-ROM Drive. Oops.
Explained. Now, do I just add her DANITAPI.FLT into the CONFIG.SYS along with
the IBM drivers? Or do they have to be removed as well as adding her other
offering? And if it goes in there together with the IBM driver and tool, does
it preceed those in CONFIG.SYS or come after them?

And .. is there any limitation on all this if used in SCSI systems in that you
have to place the IDE drive stuff after the SCSI stuff to keep out of trouble
in this case?

Thanks.

Mike Luther
Peter Brown
2007-09-24 01:44:09 UTC
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Hi Mike
Post by Mike Luther
Aha! Insight..
Post by Nobody
You do recall that Dani's latest DANIS506.ADD (File Ver. 1.8.1)
requires the use of the lastest version of her DANIATAP.FLT (aka
DANIATAPI.FLT, DANATAPI.FLT) (File Ver. 0.4)to access an ATAPI device.
Her lastest DANIS506.ADD does *not* work with IBMIDECD.FLT, or
IBMATAPI.FLT.
Without using her most recent files together, OS2CDROM.DMD can not
find or operate a device, even thought it will be loaded along with
CDFS.IFS.
Your problem sounds like what happned to me, when I temporarily used
IBM1S506.ADD, but couldn't access the CD-ROM Drive. Oops.
Explained. Now, do I just add her DANITAPI.FLT into the CONFIG.SYS
along with the IBM drivers? Or do they have to be removed as well as
adding her other offering? And if it goes in there together with the
IBM driver and tool, does it preceed those in CONFIG.SYS or come after
them?
And .. is there any limitation on all this if used in SCSI systems in
that you have to place the IDE drive stuff after the SCSI stuff to keep
out of trouble in this case?
Thanks.
Mike Luther
The "Dani Drivers" *Replace* the IBM drivers.

If you use these 2 lines

BASEDEV=DANIS506.ADD
BASEDEV=DANIATAPI.FLT

you do not need the IBM IDE drivers and should either REM those lines or
delete them.


Until fairly recently I used scsi hard drives, U160/U320 hanging off an
Adaptec 29160, and I used to preceed the above 2 lines with

BASEDEV=AICU160.ADD

I think I read somewhere that the order of the drivers is not important
these days - possibly in an eCS ng - but old habits die hard :-)

Regards

Pete
Leo Tick
2007-09-24 14:14:06 UTC
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Post by Peter Brown
Hi Mike
Post by Mike Luther
Aha! Insight..
Post by Nobody
You do recall that Dani's latest DANIS506.ADD (File Ver. 1.8.1)
requires the use of the lastest version of her DANIATAP.FLT (aka
DANIATAPI.FLT, DANATAPI.FLT) (File Ver. 0.4)to access an ATAPI
device. Her lastest DANIS506.ADD does *not* work with IBMIDECD.FLT,
or IBMATAPI.FLT.
Without using her most recent files together, OS2CDROM.DMD can not
find or operate a device, even thought it will be loaded along with
CDFS.IFS.
Your problem sounds like what happned to me, when I temporarily used
IBM1S506.ADD, but couldn't access the CD-ROM Drive. Oops.
Explained. Now, do I just add her DANITAPI.FLT into the CONFIG.SYS
along with the IBM drivers? Or do they have to be removed as well as
adding her other offering? And if it goes in there together with the
IBM driver and tool, does it preceed those in CONFIG.SYS or come after
them?
And .. is there any limitation on all this if used in SCSI systems in
that you have to place the IDE drive stuff after the SCSI stuff to
keep out of trouble in this case?
Thanks.
Mike Luther
The "Dani Drivers" *Replace* the IBM drivers.
If you use these 2 lines
BASEDEV=DANIS506.ADD
BASEDEV=DANIATAPI.FLT
you do not need the IBM IDE drivers and should either REM those lines or
delete them.
Until fairly recently I used scsi hard drives, U160/U320 hanging off an
Adaptec 29160, and I used to preceed the above 2 lines with
BASEDEV=AICU160.ADD
I think I read somewhere that the order of the drivers is not important
these days - possibly in an eCS ng - but old habits die hard :-)
Regards
Pete
It does and it doesn't. depends on the surroundings. if your boot is c:
and you have a backup system also C: you need the scsi first.
Mike Luther
2007-09-24 18:05:09 UTC
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Yes Peter - my error completely on this one.
Post by Peter Brown
Hi Mike
The "Dani Drivers" *Replace* the IBM drivers.
If you use these 2 lines
BASEDEV=DANIS506.ADD
BASEDEV=DANIATAPI.FLT
you do not need the IBM IDE drivers and should either REM those lines or
delete them.
Until fairly recently I used scsi hard drives, U160/U320 hanging off an
Adaptec 29160, and I used to preceed the above 2 lines with
BASEDEV=AICU160.ADD
I think I read somewhere that the order of the drivers is not important
these days - possibly in an eCS ng - but old habits die hard :-)
Regards
Pete
Well, sometimes yes as to order of the drivers, but as I have still noticed,
still sometimes no. So I'll hold the working order deal for the moment here
just to be safe.

When I 'read' the docs on her latest release, I did notice that her ATAPI file
system tool was paired with this release in the 1.8.0 combo. And that the
second release of the 1.8.1 for here DaniS506.ADD build followed shortly on
Hobbs, which I picked up with the ATAPI package. But I failed to understand
that the two had to be used in combination with the ATAPI package in
replacement of the IBM offerings. That the IBM code wouldn't work at all with
her 1.8 level releases.

My error completely.

OK, now after at least a start at a better reading of the documentation, I'm
even more concerned about how what I may face in how things are set up here and
there on all the boxes around me in order to move forward to this level of her
work.

First, a really large number of the systems around me are still SCSI systems
which use not only SCSI hard drives, but also SCSI DAT drive tape backup
systems, additional SCSI hard drives which can be plugged in, but are not
normally there, in mobile drive trays; as well as, in some cases actual SCSI
CD-RW units. I also use RSJ heavily for CD write and backup/CD cloning purposes
- with temporary higher letter drive ghosting - on the SCSI stuff.

The only use there for the IDE interface is another CD or DVD device for read
purposes. This major release also involves, as I note from the documentation,
the 'normal' ability to present the IDE devices as SCSI devices. The inherent
formula under which this IDE to SCSI interface is done assumes that a MASTER
device on the IDE cable is given over to the SCSI (0) unit! The slave comes
next. Thus one better be darned careful about setting up an IDE CD device as a
MASTER on any cable! But that flies in the face about data I/O speeds, as well
as the requirement, as I understand things, that the CD device has to be a
MASTER to be used for boot purposes if you are using, for example, the IBM
install CD-ROM disks, or a modified version of this technique for custom boot
CD-ROM operations.

Yes, all kinds of varients as to whether or not SCSI criss cross operation is
done can be controlled through command line changes in the CONFIG.SYS.

But .. also, we face BIOS setup and boot preference issues where, for example,
the 'normal' boot order, for setup, core level maintenance, are first device,
floppy diskette, second device CD ATAPI, and third device SCSI hard disk on
Drive C: in my case.

As I see this, as I sort of now first relate to this, the only way to really be
'safe' in my use of all this is to force no offering of the IDE devices to SCSI
use at all. Which may defeat the purpose of doing what Dani has worked hard
at; the ability to use some of the available CD/DVD utilities with IDE level
units as pseudo-'SCSI' devices. So real study is needed here in this case.

As well, in this version of Dani's file system work, auto-forcing of floppy
diskette drive units from drive A: to drive B:, in order to get a 'required' CD
boot device 'authenticity' as 'drive A:', could be a real disaster for the real
last ditch ability to work with the floppy drive unit for boot purposes or
backup and restore or cloning with DFSEE.

Second, in the case of the OS/2 laptop arena, I'm heavily using plug-in floppy
diskette units for floppy diskette access, which are absolutely required for
some parts of the backup and clone/restore operations with USB plug in hard
drive drives. That with USB second hard drive connection through after boot
re-discover operation for backup and restore or cloning with DFSEE here as well.

I've also been solidly able to actually boot the R40, R50 and T42 Thinkpads
from the USB plug-in hard drive units, which also, as I see this, is going to
need some serious research with this new level of Dani's code. Save this for
secondary research.

As to the first issues here on the SCSI affairs. Am I right, in your opinion,
to default the pair of these tools to no SCSI translation?

Thanks Pete!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Peter Brown
2007-09-25 00:47:13 UTC
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Raw Message
Hi Mike
Post by Mike Luther
Yes Peter - my error completely on this one.
Post by Peter Brown
Hi Mike
The "Dani Drivers" *Replace* the IBM drivers.
If you use these 2 lines
BASEDEV=DANIS506.ADD
BASEDEV=DANIATAPI.FLT
you do not need the IBM IDE drivers and should either REM those lines
or delete them.
Until fairly recently I used scsi hard drives, U160/U320 hanging off
an Adaptec 29160, and I used to preceed the above 2 lines with
BASEDEV=AICU160.ADD
I think I read somewhere that the order of the drivers is not
important these days - possibly in an eCS ng - but old habits die
hard :-)
Regards
Pete
Well, sometimes yes as to order of the drivers, but as I have still
noticed, still sometimes no. So I'll hold the working order deal for
the moment here just to be safe.
When I 'read' the docs on her latest release, I did notice that her
ATAPI file system tool was paired with this release in the 1.8.0 combo.
And that the second release of the 1.8.1 for here DaniS506.ADD build
followed shortly on Hobbs, which I picked up with the ATAPI package.
But I failed to understand that the two had to be used in combination
with the ATAPI package in replacement of the IBM offerings. That the
IBM code wouldn't work at all with her 1.8 level releases.
My error completely.
OK, now after at least a start at a better reading of the documentation,
I'm even more concerned about how what I may face in how things are set
up here and there on all the boxes around me in order to move forward to
this level of her work.
First, a really large number of the systems around me are still SCSI
systems which use not only SCSI hard drives, but also SCSI DAT drive
tape backup systems, additional SCSI hard drives which can be plugged
in, but are not normally there, in mobile drive trays; as well as, in
some cases actual SCSI CD-RW units. I also use RSJ heavily for CD write
and backup/CD cloning purposes - with temporary higher letter drive
ghosting - on the SCSI stuff.
The only use there for the IDE interface is another CD or DVD device for
read purposes. This major release also involves, as I note from the
documentation, the 'normal' ability to present the IDE devices as SCSI
devices. The inherent formula under which this IDE to SCSI interface is
done assumes that a MASTER device on the IDE cable is given over to the
SCSI (0) unit! The slave comes next.
Tip: Burners seem to prefer to be Master with ROMs as Slave rather than
the reverse.


Thus one better be darned careful
Post by Mike Luther
about setting up an IDE CD device as a MASTER on any cable! But that
flies in the face about data I/O speeds, as well as the requirement, as
I understand things, that the CD device has to be a MASTER to be used
for boot purposes if you are using, for example, the IBM install CD-ROM
disks, or a modified version of this technique for custom boot CD-ROM
operations.
Sorry but I'm not sure what the problem is here...

It has been a while since I last used the good old command line

cdrecord2 -scanbus > scsi.txt

to generate a report of scsi and "fake scsi" devices on a mixed scsi
hard drives/ide dvd burner and dvd-rom system but I seem to recall that
all scsi devices got listed before any ide devices - including the scsi
scanner I had.

Maybe someone else can check that for you.


cdrecord2 is a package for creating and burning cds, you should be able
to find the current release on hobbes.

The speed issue you mention is surely related to mixing an atapi device
and ide hard drive on the same ide controller - the hard drive would be
as slow as the atapi device.


As regards booting from an atapi device:

some of that is BIOS related ie if the BIOS allows booting from atapi
device 2 then it will work for some boot CD/DVDs.

Some software insists on a particular device because the software has
been built to work that way eg Bootable
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hrbaan/bootAble/index.html

When you create a BootableCD using that software it will want to boot
from whichever device it was burnt to eg I recently created a BootableCD
in drive V: (dvd burner) and when I tried booting with the disc in drive
W: (dvd-rom) it failed - because the BootableCD is particular to the
system that it is created for and requires the same drive letter as was
used during creation.

Long time since I last installed Warp4 so cannot remember if there are
any limitations with the install CD... I seem to recall that the install
always completed if there was a copy of the install cd in both burner
and rom (Master and Slave) but could fail if there was only a copy in
the burner.
Post by Mike Luther
Yes, all kinds of varients as to whether or not SCSI criss cross
operation is done can be controlled through command line changes in the
CONFIG.SYS.
But .. also, we face BIOS setup and boot preference issues where, for
example, the 'normal' boot order, for setup, core level maintenance, are
first device, floppy diskette, second device CD ATAPI, and third device
SCSI hard disk on Drive C: in my case.
As I see this, as I sort of now first relate to this, the only way to
really be 'safe' in my use of all this is to force no offering of the
IDE devices to SCSI use at all. Which may defeat the purpose of doing
what Dani has worked hard at; the ability to use some of the available
CD/DVD utilities with IDE level units as pseudo-'SCSI' devices. So
real study is needed here in this case.
As well, in this version of Dani's file system work, auto-forcing of
floppy diskette drive units from drive A: to drive B:, in order to get a
'required' CD boot device 'authenticity' as 'drive A:', could be a real
disaster for the real last ditch ability to work with the floppy drive
unit for boot purposes or backup and restore or cloning with DFSEE.
BootableCD may have the option that you need as it does not need to
pretend to be drive A: to boot - uses memdisk instead.
Post by Mike Luther
Second, in the case of the OS/2 laptop arena, I'm heavily using plug-in
floppy diskette units for floppy diskette access, which are absolutely
required for some parts of the backup and clone/restore operations with
USB plug in hard drive drives. That with USB second hard drive
connection through after boot re-discover operation for backup and
restore or cloning with DFSEE here as well.
I've also been solidly able to actually boot the R40, R50 and T42
Thinkpads from the USB plug-in hard drive units, which also, as I see
this, is going to need some serious research with this new level of
Dani's code. Save this for secondary research.
As to the first issues here on the SCSI affairs. Am I right, in your
opinion, to default the pair of these tools to no SCSI translation?
Thanks Pete!
I think you should setup 1 box and see how it goes without "defaulting"
to no scsi translation.

I think you will find it all falls into place and works well with
minimum human interference.

As you mention RSJ you may want to have a look through those docs and
you will probably get the idea that people have been using atapi burners
for quite a few years with a lot of success.

It is possible (but unlikely) you may run into unforeseen problems but
that is what ngs are for :-)

Have fun

Pete
James J. Weinkam
2007-09-25 06:02:59 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Brown
Tip: Burners seem to prefer to be Master with ROMs as Slave rather than
the reverse.
At least with IDE burners, my experience with at least six different models has
been that the burner must be master and there must be no other activity on the
same IDE controller while burning is going on.

For several years, I had a problem with having burns fail seemingly at random,
both for cd's and dvd's. I started keeping a log of all failures and eventually
noticed that there were blocks of consecutive failures for which the time of
failure was the same number of minutes after the hour for several failures in a
row. It occurred to me to compare these times with my boot log and I found that
any burn failures between two consecutive boots always occurred at the same
number of minutes after the hour. I think it was Paul Ratcliffe who told me that
every hour on the hour after boot the WPS shell checks every drive in the system
for some unknown reason. cdrecord or dvddao has locked the burner using its
scsi address, but the burner is also known by a drive letter When the WPS
checks this drive letter or that of any other drive on the same controller
during a burn I get another coaster..The solution was to use the --lock
parameter in dvddao and the lockdrive parameter of cdrecord2 to lock not only
the burner but also any other atapi drive on the same controller by their drive
letters. Unfortunately the latest version of cdrecord seems to have a bug.
lockdrive does not work when burning audio cd's. Fortunately these only take
three or four minutes and I just check the time before starting a burn when I
remember to do so. When I forget the probability of failure is only about 6%.
This phenomenon only seems to occur on systems with ASUS motherboards...
Ilya Zakharevich
2007-09-25 08:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
James J. Weinkam
Post by James J. Weinkam
Post by Peter Brown
Tip: Burners seem to prefer to be Master with ROMs as Slave rather than
the reverse.
At least with IDE burners, my experience with at least six different
models has been that the burner must be master and there must be no
other activity on the same IDE controller while burning is going on.
I see absolutely no problem with burning to a slave IDE burner sitting
on the same IDE channel as the HD with files I burn in.

Just do not forget to give something like --buffer-check 60 to dvddao.

Hope this helps,
Ilya
Mike Luther
2007-09-28 22:42:14 UTC
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Raw Message
Thanks Ilya ..
Post by Ilya Zakharevich
I see absolutely no problem with burning to a slave IDE burner sitting
on the same IDE channel as the HD with files I burn in.
Just do not forget to give something like --buffer-check 60 to dvddao.
Hope this helps,
Ilya
So noted for much more research work and learning I have in front of me!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Mike Luther
2007-09-28 22:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Interesting comment James..
Post by James J. Weinkam
At least with IDE burners, my experience with at least six different
models has been that the burner must be master and there must be no
other activity on the same IDE controller while burning is going on.
I can understand this where we might be talking about an IDE hard drive setup
with a burner. I can see where it sure might not be right to put it as a Slave
on the same cable as the hard drive.

But at this point, with RSJ, an IDE hard drive with MCP2 XRC05 latest
everything on the primary IDE controller, a CD-ROM as the Master on the
secondary IDE controller, so I can boot from that as needed, or use it for
clone copies for CD's for burning, and an LG DVD burner as a Slave on the
secondary IDE controller, I'm seeing no errors with the RSJ 5.5.3 level code on
this all IDE box.

At least yet!

Now I've not even started at going toward DVD burning here. Nor use of
anything other than the RSJ tools. So I may yet be thinking carefully about
what you posted here.

TIme will tell and you sure could be right even yet!
Post by James J. Weinkam
For several years, I had a problem with having burns fail seemingly at
random, both for cd's and dvd's. I started keeping a log of all failures
and eventually noticed that there were blocks of consecutive failures
for which the time of failure was the same number of minutes after the
hour for several failures in a row. It occurred to me to compare these
times with my boot log and I found that any burn failures between two
consecutive boots always occurred at the same number of minutes after
the hour. I think it was Paul Ratcliffe who told me that every hour on
the hour after boot the WPS shell checks every drive in the system for
some unknown reason. cdrecord or dvddao has locked the burner using its
scsi address, but the burner is also known by a drive letter When the
WPS checks this drive letter or that of any other drive on the same
controller during a burn I get another coaster..The solution was to use
the --lock parameter in dvddao and the lockdrive parameter of cdrecord2
to lock not only the burner but also any other atapi drive on the same
controller by their drive letters. Unfortunately the latest version of
cdrecord seems to have a bug. lockdrive does not work when burning audio
cd's. Fortunately these only take three or four minutes and I just check
the time before starting a burn when I remember to do so. When I forget
the probability of failure is only about 6%. This phenomenon only seems
to occur on systems with ASUS motherboards...
I have carefully tried to file the above into my memory to watch out for as I
get more into this.

I really know very little about this game at all and am very grateful for what
others are helping teach me here.
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
James J. Weinkam
2007-09-28 23:14:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Luther
Interesting comment James..
Post by James J. Weinkam
At least with IDE burners, my experience with at least six different
models has been that the burner must be master and there must be no
other activity on the same IDE controller while burning is going on.
I can understand this where we might be talking about an IDE hard drive
setup with a burner. I can see where it sure might not be right to put
it as a Slave on the same cable as the hard drive.
But at this point, with RSJ, an IDE hard drive with MCP2 XRC05 latest
everything on the primary IDE controller, a CD-ROM as the Master on the
secondary IDE controller, so I can boot from that as needed, or use it
for clone copies for CD's for burning, and an LG DVD burner as a Slave
on the secondary IDE controller, I'm seeing no errors with the RSJ 5.5.3
level code on this all IDE box.
At least yet!
Now I've not even started at going toward DVD burning here. Nor use of
anything other than the RSJ tools. So I may yet be thinking carefully
about what you posted here.
TIme will tell and you sure could be right even yet!
Post by James J. Weinkam
For several years, I had a problem with having burns fail seemingly at
random, both for cd's and dvd's. I started keeping a log of all
failures and eventually noticed that there were blocks of consecutive
failures for which the time of failure was the same number of minutes
after the hour for several failures in a row. It occurred to me to
compare these times with my boot log and I found that any burn
failures between two consecutive boots always occurred at the same
number of minutes after the hour. I think it was Paul Ratcliffe who
told me that every hour on the hour after boot the WPS shell checks
every drive in the system for some unknown reason. cdrecord or dvddao
has locked the burner using its scsi address, but the burner is also
known by a drive letter When the WPS checks this drive letter or that
of any other drive on the same controller during a burn I get another
coaster..The solution was to use the --lock parameter in dvddao and
the lockdrive parameter of cdrecord2 to lock not only the burner but
also any other atapi drive on the same controller by their drive
letters. Unfortunately the latest version of cdrecord seems to have a
bug. lockdrive does not work when burning audio cd's. Fortunately
these only take three or four minutes and I just check the time before
starting a burn when I remember to do so. When I forget the
probability of failure is only about 6%. This phenomenon only seems to
occur on systems with ASUS motherboards...
I have carefully tried to file the above into my memory to watch out for
as I get more into this.
I really know very little about this game at all and am very grateful
for what others are helping teach me here.
Actually, I need to qualify my previous statement. Ilya sent me a message
saying that he has successfully used burners as slave and upon reconsideration,
I agree that he is correct. It's been so long since I had two burners on the
same system that I had forgotten that. Thinking back, what I did find with two
CD/DVD readers and/or burners on the same IDE controller was that it worked best
if the newer or more capable device was master. The rest of what I said holds
true. If you try to do anything at all with the other device on the same
controller while a burn is in progress, you wind up with a coaster.

Also, when I did have two cd or dvd drives in the same system, I never had any
success with cd to cd or dvd to dvd copies. The only way I have ever gotten
copying to work reliably was to copy the source to a hard drive and then burn
the hard drive image to the destination.
Steve Wendt
2007-09-29 02:19:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by James J. Weinkam
If you try to do anything at all with the other device on the same
controller while a burn is in progress, you wind up with a coaster.
Also, when I did have two cd or dvd drives in the same system, I never
had any success with cd to cd or dvd to dvd copies. The only way I have
ever gotten copying to work reliably was to copy the source to a hard
drive and then burn the hard drive image to the destination.
I think this is going to be dependent on the quality of the IDE chipset,
as well as the quality of the drivers. Assuming the use of Dani's
drivers, I'd say the former is the biggest concern, especially if you
have VIA, SiS, ALi, etc.
Mike Luther
2007-09-28 22:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Pardon the time for the reply Peter but a good reason for that ..
Post by Peter Brown
Hi Mike
Tip: Burners seem to prefer to be Master with ROMs as Slave rather than
the reverse. Thus one better be darned careful
Post by Mike Luther
about setting up an IDE CD device as a MASTER on any cable! But that
flies in the face about data I/O speeds, as well as the requirement,
as I understand things, that the CD device has to be a MASTER to be
used for boot purposes if you are using, for example, the IBM install
CD-ROM disks, or a modified version of this technique for custom boot
CD-ROM operations.
Sorry but I'm not sure what the problem is here...
Well, first .. I lost about eight hours of research in this mess due to a
complete defective batch of CD-RW new disks from Memorex. I'd run out of CR-RW
disks. I bought a new 25 disk bulk pack, started using them for the research.
All of a sudden, TOTAL strange failures that popped up on four different
study systems and boxes that were the target of the new Dani tools! I was
totally blown away by this. But it persisted even after backing the new tools
from Dani out and going back to testing things with these new CR-RW disks!

I couldn't figure out what I could have done to corrupt the whole mess. Then,
out of frustration, I went out and bought a box of ten new Verbatim CD-RW disks
of the exact same specs I'd been using for years and were the same for the new
Memorex disks. POOF! Instant success! I then re-installed all the new Dani
tools for test and POOF! Instant success with her tools on these Verbatim
CD-RW disks as well.

Took the whole wheel pack of Memorex disks back to Best Buy. The tech person
told me they had had some other failures here as well. What they told me was
that in the press process, from time to time the layering and stuff can get
mangled during the manufacturing process. And, in fact, the whole batch of
whatever will, indeed be bad. So they simply gave me a refund for the whole
deal and I finally finished the initial research for Dani's new tools for what
I have here to study with Verbatim disks.

To my experience if you are going to use the CD-ROM as a boot device, then for
all of the boxes I've built from scratch, it is true that the CD-ROM device has
to be the Master for the box to boot from it at all for installation purposes
or even for a boot run for that, if your boot device roster proceeds from, say,
Floppy Disk A:, thence to CD-ROM (Master), thence to the hard disk device,
whether that hard disk is an IDE or SCSI hard drive.

In the case of everything so far up until the Intel 915GAVL/GEVL and still in
research 945 series motherboards, there have been two IDE controllers on the
boards. Thus the primary hard disk controller from which the finished box will
normally boot would be the Master on IDE controller #1. The CD-ROM would be
the Master on IDE controller #2. Thence comes the burner issue. In this case,
if I additionally have a CD-RW unit, it would be the Slave on IDE controller #2
on the box. And .. if there were, for example, two IDE hard drives, one would
be the normal boot device as the Master on the primary IDE controller. The
other IDE hard drive would be the Slave on the primary IDE controller.

In this way, complete speed for hard disk I/O would never be restricted to
whatever issues might arise for having a slower device as in the CD units on
the same IDE cable as the hard drive.

In the case of the Intel 915GAVL/GEVL units, there is only one IDE controller
and cable available on them. You can, indeed, boot from an IDE hard drive on
these boxes. As well, you can, indeed, with at least the older Dani tools, or
even the latest IBM1S506.ADD driver level, boot and run from either the IDE
cable or the SATA drives. You can, indeed, clone an IDE hard drive on these
Intel boxes into an SATA driver. And then, yank the IDE hard drive, and boot
right up from the SATA cloned drive.

In that case, if you intend to boot from the CD-ROM drive for some reason, on
the single IDE controller cable, and also use a CR-RW unit or a DVD burner, at
least with the RSJ product, you'll need the burner as the Slave. Which is
exactly what I have on one IDE unit in research here. As well as an older
ASUS mobo box with an AMD CPU I use with mobile drive trays for research with
OS/2 and Windows whatever. Which in that case has the IDE mobile drive tray on
the first controller with the Master designation, and the CD-ROM as Master on
the second controller and an LG DVD burner as slave on the second controller.
Post by Peter Brown
It has been a while since I last used the good old command line
cdrecord2 -scanbus > scsi.txt
to generate a report of scsi and "fake scsi" devices on a mixed scsi
hard drives/ide dvd burner and dvd-rom system but I seem to recall that
all scsi devices got listed before any ide devices - including the scsi
scanner I had.
Maybe someone else can check that for you.
cdrecord2 is a package for creating and burning cds, you should be able
to find the current release on hobbes.
I already have that package here, but I have never tried it. At a point a
little later in this research I will do that. Particularly after studying the
documentation for the latest DaniATAPI tool.
Post by Peter Brown
The speed issue you mention is surely related to mixing an atapi device
and ide hard drive on the same ide controller - the hard drive would be
as slow as the atapi device.
Nope, for sure not in at least the original failure box in this case! In this
case the first controller has the IDE hard drive on it, obviously the Master
drive here. It has nothing else on that IDE cable and controller. In this
case, the CD-ROM, and no burner at all, is on the Master position on the
secondary IDE controller on a separate cable.
Post by Peter Brown
some of that is BIOS related ie if the BIOS allows booting from atapi
device 2 then it will work for some boot CD/DVDs.
But I have never used the configuration of trying to boot from an atapi device
like this on the same cable as an IDE (generic) hard drive.
Post by Peter Brown
Some software insists on a particular device because the software has
been built to work that way eg Bootable
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hrbaan/bootAble/index.html
I've not gotten to the research game on Bootable yet. I have made careful note
of what you have taught me as well as ..
Post by Peter Brown
When you create a BootableCD using that software it will want to boot
from whichever device it was burnt to eg I recently created a BootableCD
in drive V: (dvd burner) and when I tried booting with the disc in drive
W: (dvd-rom) it failed - because the BootableCD is particular to the
system that it is created for and requires the same drive letter as was
used during creation.
WOW! That's not at all 'good' as I see this as a novice at this.
Post by Peter Brown
Long time since I last installed Warp4 so cannot remember if there are
any limitations with the install CD... I seem to recall that the install
always completed if there was a copy of the install cd in both burner
and rom (Master and Slave) but could fail if there was only a copy in
the burner.
Precisely. The boot and install operation, as I've seen this for Warp 4, has to
be designated as Master to even try this. And the switch disks for whatever
in any install process, in this case, don't work and the whole thing doesn't
work if any second CD/DVD device is actually in the Slave position on the cable.
Post by Peter Brown
Post by Mike Luther
Yes, all kinds of varients as to whether or not SCSI criss cross
operation is done can be controlled through command line changes in
the CONFIG.SYS.
Precisely correct as I've seen this. Including as noted here, at least for me,
even a 'correct' order of driver presence in the CONFIG.SYS file for SCSI and
IDE system use. I've always just set it up 'correctly' to start with, never
experimented with later MCP2 changes in this order. Which has been suggested
may work in the latest versions of MCP2 and so on.
Post by Peter Brown
Post by Mike Luther
But .. also, we face BIOS setup and boot preference issues where, for
example, the 'normal' boot order, for setup, core level maintenance,
are first device, floppy diskette, second device CD ATAPI, and third
device SCSI hard disk on Drive C: in my case.
BootableCD may have the option that you need as it does not need to
pretend to be drive A: to boot - uses memdisk instead.
I'm learning from you.
Post by Peter Brown
I think you should setup 1 box and see how it goes without "defaulting"
to no scsi translation.
Are you suggesting I do this on actual SCSI system boxes which only use the IDE
controller for a Master CD-ROM and a Slave CD-RW or DVD burner on the same
cable? Such as for the Intel 915GAVL/GEVL actual SCSI systems that are here?
As well as for one of them which has an actual PlexWriter 12/4/32 SCSI burner
which is designated as an actual SCSI device on the Adaptec controller, plus
has an actual Seagate DD3 tape backup drive on this, all even properly set up
with spindle sync settings and so on?

Recall that if you are using spindle sync negotiation for a SCSI hard drive,
you also have to have a SCSI tape drive which can be set for this as well? For
exactly why the choices have been carefully made for the whole setup all over
all of this to use the Seagate DAT tape drives. The can enable spindle sync
negotiation as needed.

What is the likelihood of ever being able to handle this between export of any
of this ATAPI stuff into a 'SCSI unit' as is contemplated in all this now under
this technique I'm just discovering for CD-RW and DVD burners?

Remember that one of the worst corruption errors you can face in the BA2K
Server Pro operations with SCSI tape drives, is related to long block SCSI
channel writes. BA2K Server Pro is one of very few tools, so I was trained in
their service support work they did with us, which uses the 64K long block
write technique to the tape drives. Unless you very carefully work out the
block length and choose the SCSI setup parameters for your SCSI tape backup
drives you can hit HORRIBLE problems with locked systems and bad data issues
here with the long block technique.

How would any CD-RW or DVD burner operation which ghosts things into SCSI ever
get along in any actual SCSI based system doing this as you see it?
Post by Peter Brown
I think you will find it all falls into place and works well with
minimum human interference.
With all the above in mind, I am sincerely thinking about your suggestion though..
Post by Peter Brown
As you mention RSJ you may want to have a look through those docs and
you will probably get the idea that people have been using atapi burners
for quite a few years with a lot of success.
It is possible (but unlikely) you may run into unforeseen problems but
that is what ngs are for :-)
Have fun
Pete
Yes .. that is why I'm posting here, trying to help me as well as perhaps help
others at all this!

OK .. as of now, with DaniS506.ADD and DaniATAPI.FLT, and the /!SCSI command
line block, I am now apparently stable and fully functional on:

Two SCSI systems of the MCP2 XRC05 latest whatever level.

a.) One of which has the PlexWriter SCSI burner.
b.) One of which has an LG IDE burner.

One completely IDE system with MCP2 XRC05 latest whatever level.

a.) Which has an IDE hard drive Master on the first IDE controller.
b.) Which has a Master CD-ROM and a Slave LG DVD burner on the
second IDE controller

One completely IDE system with MCP2 XR05 latest whatever level.

a.) This is the ASUS Coppermine Intel CPU
b.) Which has no burner at all yet.
c.) But at least will now run Dani's drivers and everything so far
with no memory creep issues!

And EXACTLY the same system on Warp 4 level, with either Dani's
latest tools, or her last 1.7.10 DaniS506.ADD release, or IBM's
latest IBM1S506.ADD, will *NOT* run except like molasses. That
with FP17, TCP 4.3 latest, everything, that works fine on other
than this ASUS Coppermine box!

So it is *NOT* Dani's code which is the problem here, as far as I can see at
all. It is simple that no form of Warp 4 can run properly on this motherboard
and CPU without the memory access problem. PCI100 or PCI133 memory; whatever!

I still have research to do on the IBM ThinkPad issues yet for all this, which
include USB backup hard drive capability and actual boot and re-clone, plus
pure boot from the external USB system which works for me, prior to the latest
Dani's tools. But thats gotta be done carefully as system changes if something
goes wrong on the boot run have to be coordinated from floppy diskette boot
runs for me. And I do not want to be a lonely puppy in the dark on this one.

Thanks Peter!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Will Honea
2007-09-29 01:24:19 UTC
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Post by Mike Luther
To my experience if you are going to use the CD-ROM as a boot device, then
for all of the boxes I've built from scratch, it is true that the CD-ROM
device has to be the Master for the box to boot from it at all for
installation purposes or even for a boot run for that, if your boot device
roster proceeds from, say, Floppy Disk A:, thence to CD-ROM (Master),
thence to the hard disk device, whether that hard disk is an IDE or SCSI
hard drive.
Mike, I've got 4 boxes on this KVM switch and all 4 have the CD-ROM/DVD
drove as the slave on the second channel. All boot and install properly
with no hiccups (other than normal drive to drive pickiness). One of the
boxes goes even further: it has 2 SATA channels that are enumerated by the
BIOS ahead of the PATA channels and the PATA slave CD device on channel 2
as slave works as expected. Points for your research: 3 of the 4 are DELL
Optiplex models circa 2001 - 2002 vintage with the most recent Phoenix BIOS
on any of them dated 2004. The 4th is my new toy - Lenovo AMD Athlon
64x2 - also has a Phoenix BIOS but it is dated 9/13/2007.

Is this a possible BIOS characteristic? Also remember that OS/2 for years
required the CDROM to be jumpered as a slave even if it was the only device
on the second channel - wouldn't work otherwise.
--
Will Honea
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Steve Wendt
2007-09-29 02:21:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Will Honea
Post by Mike Luther
To my experience if you are going to use the CD-ROM as a boot device, then
for all of the boxes I've built from scratch, it is true that the CD-ROM
device has to be the Master for the box to boot from it
Is this a possible BIOS characteristic?
Definitely.
Mike Luther
2007-10-05 02:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Forgive the time delay in the answer Will.
Post by Will Honea
Is this a possible BIOS characteristic? Also remember that OS/2 for years
required the CDROM to be jumpered as a slave even if it was the only device
on the second channel - wouldn't work otherwise.
Uhhh .. foggy mountain memory does hark back to that! Do you know if this is
still an issue with the later MCP2 level code and the most recent CDROM drivers
and so on?

If you don't know this Will, does anyone here know the right answer for the
later/latest code? And does anyone here know the answer to this if you are
using Dani's version DaniS506.ADD and DaniATAPI.FLS in substitute for the IBM
drivers?

I'm using Dani's stuff now on this same box and able to use the LG DVD to burn
CDROM disks on it. As well I have read at her documentation on forcing the
removable media eject on system shut down. But I've also noticed that with her
latest code, I keep getting a ton of Unimaint .INI file cleanup errors for
files I now see on the CDROM drive in this test box which are stuck in the .INI
files as objects on that drive which cannot be 'accessed' when you yank
whatever CDROM out of it you have been working with for reading only or reading
from on a CDROM cloning operation with RSJ 5.5.3 in use here.

Thanks!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Will Honea
2007-10-05 06:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Luther
Forgive the time delay in the answer Will.
Post by Will Honea
Is this a possible BIOS characteristic? Also remember that OS/2 for
years required the CDROM to be jumpered as a slave even if it was the
only device on the second channel - wouldn't work otherwise.
Uhhh .. foggy mountain memory does hark back to that! Do you know if this
is still an issue with the later MCP2 level code and the most recent CDROM
drivers and so on?
If you don't know this Will, does anyone here know the right answer for the
later/latest code? And does anyone here know the answer to this if you
are using Dani's version DaniS506.ADD and DaniATAPI.FLS in substitute for
the IBM drivers?
I'm using Dani's stuff now on this same box and able to use the LG DVD to burn
CDROM disks on it. As well I have read at her documentation on forcing the
removable media eject on system shut down. But I've also noticed that
with her latest code, I keep getting a ton of Unimaint .INI file cleanup
errors for files I now see on the CDROM drive in this test box which are
stuck in the .INI files as objects on that drive which cannot be
'accessed' when you yank whatever CDROM out of it you have been working
with for reading only or reading from on a CDROM cloning operation with
RSJ 5.5.3 in use here.
I think it was fixed somewhere in the Warp 4 fixpacks. I haven't seen any
problems in a while other than the hassle you get into with one drive on
channel 0 with no slave then both a master and a slave on channel 1 - that
hole in the the link seems to cause trouble, but the lack of a true master
on channel 1 is allowed. I think it was bogus to begin with as the ATA
CDROM drives were not truly master/slave capable anywho.
--
Will Honea
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Mike Luther
2007-10-05 12:36:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Binkgo! More useful news!
Post by Will Honea
I think it was fixed somewhere in the Warp 4 fixpacks. I haven't seen any
problems in a while other than the hassle you get into with one drive on
channel 0 with no slave then both a master and a slave on channel 1 - that
hole in the the link seems to cause trouble, but the lack of a true master
on channel 1 is allowed. I think it was bogus to begin with as the ATA
CDROM drives were not truly master/slave capable anywho.
Master on 0 and Master CDROM and Slave DVD burner on 1 is exactly how this
research IDE box is configured. After thinking about what you posted, since
nothing is done to write to the CDROM which is the master now, would I be
better off moving the CDROM as read-only device to the Slave on 0 and the DVD
burner to Master on 1?

What are the details on the 'hassle' you get into described above? If you
would be so kind to teach some more to some of us here?

More curiosity here. In the case of the IBM ThinkPads, how is the CD-RW/DVD
read only factory tray actually configured vs. the hard drive and the
'controller' or 'controllers' in them? And does your 'hassle' also apply to
SATA stuff, with perhaps just one IDE controller like the Intel 915G series
motherboards? Just thinking ahead and trying to put all this together toward
applying all this to Dani's driver work as well.

Thanks!
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Will Honea
2007-10-05 19:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Luther
Binkgo! More useful news!
Post by Will Honea
I think it was fixed somewhere in the Warp 4 fixpacks. I haven't seen
any problems in a while other than the hassle you get into with one drive
on channel 0 with no slave then both a master and a slave on channel 1 -
that hole in the the link seems to cause trouble, but the lack of a true
master
on channel 1 is allowed. I think it was bogus to begin with as the ATA
CDROM drives were not truly master/slave capable anywho.
Master on 0 and Master CDROM and Slave DVD burner on 1 is exactly how this
research IDE box is configured. After thinking about what you posted,
since nothing is done to write to the CDROM which is the master now, would
I be better off moving the CDROM as read-only device to the Slave on 0 and
the DVD burner to Master on 1?
What are the details on the 'hassle' you get into described above? If you
would be so kind to teach some more to some of us here?
More curiosity here. In the case of the IBM ThinkPads, how is the
CD-RW/DVD read only factory tray actually configured vs. the hard drive
and the
'controller' or 'controllers' in them? And does your 'hassle' also apply
to SATA stuff, with perhaps just one IDE controller like the Intel 915G
series
motherboards? Just thinking ahead and trying to put all this together
toward applying all this to Dani's driver work as well.
Thanks!
Mike, I think this is water under the bridge for reasonably current
machines. To the best of my memory (suspect!) the problem actually came
from the BIOS enumeration where the OS/2 enumeration of drives wound up
off-by-one and the infamous "can't operate your drive" popped up. Right in
front of me is a machine with 4 ATA ports (2 channels), 2 SATA channels, 8
USB ports, and 4 card reader channels. Everything seems to be getting
sorted out - even by eCS, so I think that the problem has been fixed but I
suspect that it was by use of modern BIOS logicl more than anything.

My R30 has the hard drive as master on channel 0, the CDROM as master on
channel 1.
--
Will Honea
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Steve Wendt
2007-09-29 02:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mike Luther
How would any CD-RW or DVD burner operation which ghosts things into
SCSI ever get along in any actual SCSI based system doing this as you
see it?
I think you are imagining problems that won't ever exist. The SCSI
emulation for the ATAPI devices will be on a separate "SCSI controller"
from the real one.
Post by Mike Luther
It is simple that no form of Warp 4 can run properly on
this motherboard and CPU without the memory access problem.
It sounds like L2 cache might be disabled; check your BIOS settings.
Mike Luther
2007-09-29 16:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks Steve ..
Post by Steve Wendt
Post by Mike Luther
It is simple that no form of Warp 4 can run properly on this
motherboard and CPU without the memory access problem.
It sounds like L2 cache might be disabled; check your BIOS settings.
Tried that both ways with both hard drives, the Warp 4 and MCP2 stuff. The
Warp4 will run just fine on several other Pentium and AMD CPU systems and boxes.

The Warp 4 test hard drive absolutely won't run on this ASUS Coppermine CPU box
without the memory slower than treacle issue, P110 or P133 memory L2 cache
enabled or disabled, no matter what, which produces the Seamonkey wait a couple
minutes to finish loading. The MCP2 test hard drive does just fine.

I really do appreciate your time and suggestions Steve.
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
Uwe Pilgram
2007-09-27 19:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hello Mike,

reading this I would strongly recommend to send a trouble report to
Dani. Her docs say what she needs to process it efficiently. She
promptly follows up correctly documented trouble reports.

Regards
Uwe

--------------
Post by Mike Luther
Well Bill ..
Post by William L. Hartzell
There is one other possibility and that is the local shared resources
is/are not starting. I went onto that box just to find out and I
discovered that I had disabled starting the local share when I
switched over to using TCPbeui as it was the boot partition (I deleted
the share and not seen the dialog in three boots today). SMB over TCP
is TCPbeui, as in Netbios over TCP/IP. Firewalls only affects
TCP/IP. If you are using NETbeui, aka Netbios, then the firewall is
not part of the problem.
Turns out this issue with the new 1.8.1 version is more pervasive than I
thought! I suddenly discovered that on ANY box of any kind on which it
is installed, if there is no actual hard drive on the IDE cable, then
the problem seems to be that no CD-ROM there is actually found during
the boot up run.
Now on my R40 laptop, the hard disk and boot run completes. On it I
don't know at this point if the CD-RW is found or not. As well, on an
ASUS box with an AMD processor and IDE drive in a mobile drive tray, the
IDE main drive for the box is found. However both the CD-ROM and a DVD
in it are missing after the boot run!
The main box with the SCSI system an only the CD-ROM as the single IDE
device on that cable has no CD-ROM after boot up .. leading to the share
missing error during the requester startup. On another SCSI system with
only a CD-ROM as the only device on that IDE interface on its Intel
915GAVL motherboard doesn't get found at all either.
At any rate, for the moment I'm back on Dani's 1.7.10 release of
February of 2007 which is where all this was prior to the attempted
latest release upgrade. Which works fine for all here for the moment.
I'd welcome other thoughts here from you or whomever. I really don't
want to formally go towards Dani's realm until I can do so with only the
right data and so on. Her time is far too valuable as to the
contribution she has made to us all here with OS/2 to waste on
information that really doesn't contribute to whatever is missing. I'd
like to find someone else who sees this as well before focusing on what
to present.
Thanks!
Mike Luther
2007-09-28 22:33:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Thanks Uwe for your time.
Post by Uwe Pilgram
Hello Mike,
reading this I would strongly recommend to send a trouble report to
Dani. Her docs say what she needs to process it efficiently. She
promptly follows up correctly documented trouble reports.
Regards
Uwe
--------------
Post by Mike Luther
Well Bill ..
Post by William L. Hartzell
There is one other possibility and that is the local shared resources
is/are not starting. I went onto that box just to find out and I
discovered that I had disabled starting the local share when I
switched over to using TCPbeui as it was the boot partition (I
deleted the share and not seen the dialog in three boots today). SMB
over TCP is TCPbeui, as in Netbios over TCP/IP. Firewalls only
affects TCP/IP. If you are using NETbeui, aka Netbios, then the
firewall is not part of the problem.
Turns out this issue with the new 1.8.1 version is more pervasive than
I thought! I suddenly discovered that on ANY box of any kind on which
it is installed, if there is no actual hard drive on the IDE cable,
then the problem seems to be that no CD-ROM there is actually found
during the boot up run.
Now on my R40 laptop, the hard disk and boot run completes. On it I
don't know at this point if the CD-RW is found or not. As well, on an
ASUS box with an AMD processor and IDE drive in a mobile drive tray,
the IDE main drive for the box is found. However both the CD-ROM and
a DVD in it are missing after the boot run!
The main box with the SCSI system an only the CD-ROM as the single IDE
device on that cable has no CD-ROM after boot up .. leading to the
share missing error during the requester startup. On another SCSI
system with only a CD-ROM as the only device on that IDE interface on
its Intel 915GAVL motherboard doesn't get found at all either.
At any rate, for the moment I'm back on Dani's 1.7.10 release of
February of 2007 which is where all this was prior to the attempted
latest release upgrade. Which works fine for all here for the moment.
I'd welcome other thoughts here from you or whomever. I really don't
want to formally go towards Dani's realm until I can do so with only
the right data and so on. Her time is far too valuable as to the
contribution she has made to us all here with OS/2 to waste on
information that really doesn't contribute to whatever is missing.
I'd like to find someone else who sees this as well before focusing on
what to present.
Thanks!
At this point after a long number of hours of research, the issue has nothing
to do with Dani's work. You might wade through my respone to Peter Brown which
details this.

I still haven't finished the research relative to what might go wrong if the
/!SCSI command option where not done on actual SCSI systems. As well as I
still have not finished my research on the IBM ThinkPad issues here with the
complex use of USB external hard drive use and floppy diskette boot up mode if
needed.

But before I file anything with Dani I want to be as sure as I can that there
is something actually there that is wrong.

Thanks again for your time and thoughts.
--
--> Sleep well; OS2's still awake! ;)

Mike Luther
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